In June, Remai Modern issued an open call for local residents to take part in This Situation (solo), a work by Tino Sehgal that draws museum visitors into conversations prompted by quotations from Western philosophy.
Sehgal calls these experiences “constructed situations” — ephemeral art experiences activated through encounters between the museum visitor and the individuals enacting his work. His playful and often unexpected situations have been enacted by museum guards, tour guides, gallerists, dancers and even children. For This Situation (solo), eight Saskatoon residents were selected with a range of backgrounds, including actors, writers, students and storytellers.
Visitors are encouraged to see this work in person. For Sehgal, the live encounter is paramount, with his artworks existing in the realm of affect rather than material objects. The enduring impressions of his artwork reside only in the memories of the visitors and the bodies of those enacting them.
Remai Modern reached out to each interpreter to hear about their experiences, from reading the open call to special moments at the museum.
Laurel Beyer
1) What experience, background or skills did you bring to this project?
I am retired as a special education teacher and as a counselor of abuse survivors. I currently work as a marriage commissioner. In all of these, I had experience in listening to people and helping clarify what they were thinking and saying. I enjoy conversations with others and learning more about their perspectives.
2) How do you prepare to enact This Situation (solo)?
I sit in silence and centre down. Then I review the quotations I have memorized. I do stretching and balancing exercises to help prepare for standing and moving. I also think about the “conversation starters” I will use.
3) Tell us about a favourite or memorable moment you had with a museum visitor.
I had a group of 25 university students come by who responded well as a group. Their instructor moved them on to see other exhibits. When they had free time, some of them returned and asked for another quotation. They related it to what they were studying and what was missing regarding ethics and care of others in their engineering classes. It was a deep and thought-provoking conversation.
Cody Brayshaw
1) What made you interested in being an interpreter of Tino Sehgal’s work?
I have always been a big supporter of interactivity within art. When the opportunity came around through my schooling, I jumped right on in as soon as I could with the application. It felt like a once in a lifetime opportunity to be able to interpret the art of a high-level international artist.
2) What experience, background or skills did you bring to this project?
Given that I’m 21 years old, I don’t have a ton of what most people would call life experience. However, I do have a very diverse and unique set of interests and skills that I feel really enhanced my life growing up. I also thought that as a theatre design major who takes a big interest in science and technology, I would have a lot to connect with most people on.
3) Did your expectations and ideas of the work change as you’ve enacted This Situation (solo)? If so, how?
My expectations changed only slightly, as I expected it to be easier to interpret the movement as well as the quotes at the same time. I really have to find my zen moment to be able to get that nice balance in between communicating with the guests and staying balanced with the movement.
4) What is the most challenging part of this work?
I would probably say trying to engage with someone as they enter the liminal space without startling or creeping them out. It’s difficult to find that right balance where you’re warm and welcoming but not out of place to the guest.
5) Tell us about a favourite or memorable moment you had with a museum visitor.
My favourite moment would probably have been on the opening day of the exhibit, where I had been working alongside another interpreter, and we had a visitor come up to us after welcoming them, and we offered them a series of quotes until they found one they connected with. Once we found that one that had the connection, we were able to communicate on an extremely deep level with the guest, and dig deep into the roots of why this quote connected. My favourite part of that was sitting on the ground with the guest and having an entire wedding party loudly and unceremoniously walk right through our space, yet we continued to have our conversation without breaking the connection.
Jaron Francis
1) What experience, background or skills did you bring to this project?
Theatre/film training; 20 years as a professional actor.
2) Did your expectations and ideas of the work change as you’ve enacted This Situation (solo)? If so, how?
They changed once I started having interactions with patrons. The way people reacted had a far stronger effect on me than I anticipated. And some of the conversations engaged people in ways I didn’t predict either.
3) How do you prepare to enact This Situation (solo)?
Relaxation.
4) What is the most challenging part of this work?
Overcoming the initial hesitation some people feel toward me when I first engage them. There’s often a visible inclination to withdraw/escape that if they can push through — or be coaxed through — they’re grateful to have circumvented. It’s also hard on certain parts of the body to stand on the same spot for hours on end.
5) Tell us about a favourite or memorable moment you had with a museum visitor.
I had an interaction with a couple that lasted 10 minutes or so. They were quite engaged, as was I. They departed and presumably took in the rest of the gallery, returning an hour or so later and requesting another interaction, which felt lovely. Our second encounter lasted 45 minutes and ranged across a multitude of topics. One of them left to use the washroom and returned still wanting more!
Paxton Francis
1) What made you interested in being an interpreter of Tino Sehgal’s work?
I enjoy talking with people, but I don’t much enjoy small talk. I was attracted to the opportunity to have a great many conversations with a wide variety of people, while holding a kind of license to cut past the small talk and straight to the meat of deep questions or profound ideas.
2) What experience, background or skills did you bring to this project?
I have spent time studying philosophy and language, and I have training and experience in drama and other performance arts. This turned out to be a useful blend of backgrounds for this project.
3) Did your expectations and ideas of the work change as you’ve enacted This Situation (solo)? If so, how?
To some degree yes, but considering what an unconventional form of work this is, it turned out to be a lot like how I imagined it would be. It feels a bit like being a coin-operated conversation dispenser, but also like being a teacher and student at the same time.
4) How do you prepare to enact This Situation (solo)?
At this point I no longer need to mentally prepare before enacting the work. Once I had achieved all the necessary memorization and was able to stop worrying I might forget a quotation halfway through reciting it, the work ceased to be stressful. While enacting the piece requires a lot of thinking on-the-spot, I personally find the less I think about it before I start, the more relaxed and comfortable I feel. Being relaxed and comfortable is necessary for me to be able to listen well, and actively listening to the visitors’ thoughts is a key part of doing this work well, in my view.
5) Tell us about a favourite or memorable moment you had with a museum visitor.
I had a very interesting conversation with a young man who had recently immigrated here from Latin America. He was on his way home from a shift as a cook downtown, a job he described as his dream job, and was visiting the gallery for the first time. He explained to me that he had the very first date of his life coming up the next evening, and he had come to the gallery to reconnoitre it and see if it would be a good place to bring his date. We ended up conversing for probably 30 minutes about the nature of family and what it really is, the value of labour, and the dangers of confusing perception with reality, among other things. He was filled with insights uncommon in such a young person, and he had a warmth and thoughtfulness about him that I appreciated. Our talk was simultaneously philosophical and heartwarming, somehow. I was not at the gallery the following evening, so I have no idea if he brought his date there or not in the end, but I do hope it went well for both of them.
Jordan Hansen
1) What experience, background or skills did you bring to this project?
I enjoy a good philosophical conversation, and I have taken a couple philosophy classes in university. I am currently studying at the University of Saskatchewan, majoring in archaeology. I find humans incredibly interesting and that’s another reason why I wanted to be an interpreter. I also just spend a lot of time pondering life, existence and the universe, and it’s nice to be able to share that experience with others.
2) Did your expectations and ideas of the work change as you’ve enacted This Situation (solo)? If so, how?
Before the rehearsals, I wasn’t entirely sure of the exact details or what this would look like, but as we started practicing, I became more intrigued. I wasn’t sure how responsive people would be because a piece like this isn’t something you see every day and it throws a lot of people off, but I’ve been very impressed with the responses I’ve been getting. There are still people who will ignore you or not want to engage, but it’s been really nice to see how well it’s been received by most people.
3) How do you prepare to enact This Situation (solo)?
To mentally prepare, I go over the quotes in my head and really think about what they mean to me and the more I think, the meaning gets deeper and I can almost have a conversation in my head about it. I grew up performing, and while this isn’t a performance, I feel like that makes it a bit easier because I don’t really get nervous; I can just jump into it.
4) Tell us about a favourite or memorable moment you had with a museum visitor.
I have had a lot of memorable moments while doing this, but the most memorable so far actually happened on the opening day of the piece. Cody, another interpreter, and I started a conversation with a couple and it turned into a really deep conversation about life and familial relationships. I’m not quite sure how long it lasted (it’s easy to lose track of time while doing this), but we ended up all sitting on the floor and it almost felt like a therapy session at times. It was a very beautiful moment.
Danica Lorer
1) What made you interested in being an interpreter of Tino Sehgal’s work?
As a professional artist and advocate for the arts in all forms I’m always interested in what is going on in our community and beyond. The Facebook calls caught my attention. I apply for a lot of opportunities and when I am chosen I always learn about the world and myself.
2) What experience, background or skills did you bring to this project?
I’m a professional oral storyteller and freelance writer, among other things. I’ve always worked with people of all ages. I believe that my ears are more important than my voice and that can lead to a good conversation.
3) Did your expectations and ideas of the work change as you’ve enacted This Situation (solo)? If so, how?
I spend the quiet times continuing to think about the quotes and learning more about myself and my thoughts. I am constantly considering how the work influences the visitors, but also how it impacts the thoughts and bodies of those of us who are animating the piece.
4) How do you prepare to enact This Situation (solo)?
It is a piece that is very much in the brain and in the body. I go over the quotes, drink water, and walk in with as much confidence as I can muster. I prepare to enter the space with an open mind and heart.
5) What is the most challenging part of this work?
The most challenging thing for me is the memorization and understanding of the quotes. I have to think about them for quite a while before I am comfortable with discussing them.
6) Tell us about a favourite or memorable moment you had with a museum visitor.
I love it when a quote seems perfect for a visitor or group, the knowing glances between folks as the wisdom speaks directly to them.
Mannie Mirzaei
1) What experience, background or skills did you bring to this project?
I did an installation for one of my graduate courses — Queer Theory — based on an interpretation of one of Rumi’s poems (I am Persian). Also, I did my MA in Politics focused on Political Philosophy. So, I am familiar with Western philosophy, especially Existential philosophy, which I think is the core of This Situation (solo).
2) Did your expectations and ideas of the work change as you’ve enacted This Situation (solo)? If so, how?
Yes, I think they have. For example, I had thought that older people would engage in the conversations more than younger people would; however, during the period I have been doing the project, I found that younger generations are more interested in engaging in conversations. This is so important, I think; it is a sign of change.
3) How do you prepare to enact This Situation (solo)?
Before starting every shift, I meditate. One cannot deliver the quotes if they have not thought about them.
4) Tell us about a favourite or memorable moment you had with a museum visitor.
I was talking to a man and he got emotional. It made me think of the power of conversion. People, in this culture, do not talk to each other. This is too unhealthy. I think institutions such as Remai Modern have the duty to improve such a situation.
Narges Porsandekhial
1) What made you interested in being an interpreter of Tino Sehgal’s work?
I saw the call for collaboration through our department at the University of Saskatchewan. I knew Tino’s works from my art history classes and was already fond of his practice. When I saw the requirements, the fact that having a conversation around deep subject matters was the key component really grabbed my attention. On the other hand, the provided information was too brief, so I got curious to know more about it! I believe people are forgetting how to interact with each other, so the philosophy behind the work was absolutely intriguing for me. Also, I am working on socially engaged art in my own research, so I knew I would definitely benefit from this experience.
2) What experience, background or skills did you bring to this project?
I don’t think I had any special skills to be a part of this project! And I remember that the call specifically noted that you just have to be keen and there wasn’t any special requirement or skills listed. Tino wanted us to be ourselves, so we mostly had to be interested in the work. But definitely, my background in art and humanities helped me provoke many conversations. Being a writer and a bookworm makes me curious about different perspectives and scenarios. I’d love to tell/hear a story of any type, and this project somehow provided me with the chance to both be the audience and the storyteller.
3) Did your expectations and ideas of the work change as you’ve enacted This Situation (solo)? If so, how?
Definitely! At first, I had a strict perfectionist attitude towards the outcome, but after a few deep interactions, I realized it’s the process that matters. Of course, not everyone wanted to be a part of the experience and I had to prepare myself for a rejection or even confused faces! After a while, I would try to analyze the vibe of each visitor and pick a quotation that might be interesting for them, and encourage them to participate. Live art is still a field that many people haven’t heard of, so I adjusted my expectations throughout the work. I learned that many people might require an incentive and many are there just to listen and observe.
4) How do you prepare to enact This Situation (solo)?
Well, I guess I just prepare myself for any reaction. There have been days that I was feeling low, but a conversation lightened up my mood. Every day before the beginning, I try to review all the quotes in my mind and imagine how different people could have different opinions on the same quote. This way I am prepared to improvise a bit or give them a prompt if I find them interested. And first and foremost, reminding myself that human interaction can bring about beautiful possibilities.
5) What is the most challenging part of this work?
Talking! Or to be more specific, starting a conversation. For someone like me who has social anxiety, going to people, offering them something, being rejected, asking questions, or encouraging them seemed impossible! Being able to make someone interested, and having strong eye contact — the list was too long for me. But when you see that a visitor is willing to share, you unconsciously forget about all your anxiety. At first, memorizing the quotes was a bit challenging too. And for someone like me, with no live art experience or even any theatre/performance background, adding the movements felt unnatural and a bit tricky to adjust to.
6) Tell us about a favourite or memorable moment you had with a museum visitor.
My favourite conversation so far was with two parents, which lasted for about 25 minutes. The quote started the conversation but we went on and talked about various subjects. The moment that made me so emotional was the part that they shared they have a child with special needs. That gave me the courage to talk about some of my own personal experiences, though bitter and unpleasant. Our conversation mostly revolved around mental health, the fact that the world is missing out on the value of any type of group therapy, sharing, giving and receiving. To be honest, in the end, they enlightened me about resources that I wasn’t aware of. It was the sympathy in their eyes and their tone, their willingness to listen that made it so special to me. We even thought that we could start some sort of community for ourselves! I felt so safe while talking to them that I didn’t want the conversation to end. That conversation was definitely memorable for me.
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This Situation (solo), along with two other works by Tino Sehgal, is on view at Remai Modern until September 4, 2022.
These interviews have been edited for clarity and ease of reading.